grolb
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by grolb on Apr 8, 2011 8:28:41 GMT -5
I have a 5Kw solar array grid tied with net metering. The meter is an Itron C1SDR2, which rotates between 3 numbers. I can't reconcile any of these with my estimated total consumption, estimated net consumption, or measured solar output. What are the numbers supposed to be, and how can I tell if it is working correctly?
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Post by Meter Repair on Apr 11, 2011 12:15:55 GMT -5
Can you reply with pics of the 3 meter screens,
And provide more info about ur electric company name and rate name? John
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Post by Meter Repair on Apr 30, 2011 22:59:25 GMT -5
grolb emailed me these pictures.... i suspect this screen is the power delivered to your home, as i would estimate you have more hours where the sun is not shining to consume power, resulting in a slightly higher reading that the other screen. Attachments:
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Post by Meter Repair on Apr 30, 2011 23:00:14 GMT -5
i suspect this screen is the solar power sold back to your utility during the day. Attachments:
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Post by Meter Repair on Apr 30, 2011 23:00:45 GMT -5
this screen is the peak demand display, it is saying your system sold to power co at one time during a really sunny day, a maximum of 4.220 Kwh, most likely at the peak of the day around 11 to 3pm. in otherwords, if it had sustained that output for 1 hour and any loads within your house were constant, it would have sold 4.220 Kwh with efficency losses of a 5kw system and some small loads on in the house, 4.220 Kw would be about what i would expect to see. it is possible this screen is peak demand for peak power you used from power company (or both), but i suspect they are more concerned with what you feed back to them Attachments:
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Post by waytoomuchcoffee on May 8, 2011 9:29:26 GMT -5
Hi. I work with an electric utility that offers a PV energy buyback program. It sounds like your utility is buying energy back at the rate it is being sold to you, so net metering would be a good solution for them since the billing readout is exactly what the name implies - net. Unfortunately it doesn't do you much good in determining how effective your PV array is. What we do is have an additional meter between the array inverter and the service entrance. The other meter is a standard meter (make doesn't really matter). We are going to AMI and using Sensus meters so for these customers the meters will be programmed to track energy going from the distribution network to the house or from the house to the network in separate buckets. This will allow us to use only the one meter at the service entrance and still keep the books straight. If your utility is still doing manual reads my low-cost suggestion would be to buy a standard meter and place it between the array inverter and the service entrance. This will not disrupt the utility billing (keeps the office happy) and allows you to see how well your PV array is doing. Good luck!
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Post by Meter Repair on May 14, 2011 8:53:45 GMT -5
Email message from Grolb,
John,
Thank you for being so patient. Here's the scoop. The first number always increments at night, and in the day, so presumably reflects consumption. The second only increments in the day, and is proportional but not the same as the output from the array. The third number has not changed, and on reflection may be a marker set to the cumulative consumption that was on the old meter. Thanks for your help.
my reply to grolb,
the one that has not changed, thats the 4.220 correct? thats probabally because its measuring demand of flow either from the power company to you, from you to the power company or either.
an expieriment for you if you are curious
tonight after sunset turn on your ac, and all your stoves burners and oven elements and anything else in your house that consumes alot of power for 15 to 20 minutes...if it is measuring peak demand from power company to you, that number will increase above 4.220 as an house Ac and all the functions of a stove should take more than 4.220kw. i say 15-20 minutes because digital demand meters have whats referred to as Demand Interval, which from my experience is the amount of time it takes for it to measure a change in demand to display.
the default for some digital meters is 15 minutes, but i have seen some programmed down to 1 minute or less so its possible that yours may change quicker than 15-20 minutes, so watch your meter when everything is on, if it changes quicker than 15 minutes, no need to continue using lots of power.
the second display is most-likely your sell to them screen, its not always proportional in the day due to how much stuff is turned on in your home, the more stuff turned on, the slower that number will increase.
thanks,
john
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whm
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by whm on Nov 5, 2011 12:36:37 GMT -5
Hey! I just put up a 10kw pv system in the tampa electric service area. They offer the rebate which I got pre-qualified for.
I just tested my new system without any further interaction with them. I wanted to know it works before finishing paying for it.
I have a Centron C1SR meter. I didn't want to pay for backfed power so I used the bypass lever in the box. Yes, the meter box seal has been clipped for years and the uitility doesn't care.
I now read online that the meter data considers 'meter removal' as tamper and 'reverse current flow' as tamper.
Will the utility give me trouble seeing I have a solid track record of paying $300 average per month for years?
Will they use this 'condition' as an argument of basis for rebate rejection?
I just find it hard to have paid over $42k for a massive system and I have to now wait weeks losing $7 a day income from that system.
I cannot even start paying it off until the utility gets around to the red-tape on interconnection, etc.
Anyone have thoughts? Please respond even if only to castrate me!
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Post by meterman70 on Nov 5, 2011 17:11:56 GMT -5
Well, if the utility comes around to check out your setup and finds the socket bypass lever engaged, they will likely come after you for tampering.
I think the only reason they have let slide the fact that the socket seal has been clipped for so long is the billing amount having been consistent for years.
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Post by Meter Repair on Nov 6, 2011 15:10:10 GMT -5
Hey! I just put up a 10kw pv system in the tampa electric service area. They offer the rebate which I got pre-qualified for. I just tested my new system without any further interaction with them. I wanted to know it works before finishing paying for it. I have a Centron C1SR meter. I didn't want to pay for backfed power so I used the bypass lever in the box. Yes, the meter box seal has been clipped for years and the uitility doesn't care. I now read online that the meter data considers 'meter removal' as tamper and 'reverse current flow' as tamper. Will the utility give me trouble seeing I have a solid track record of paying $300 average per month for years? Will they use this 'condition' as an argument of basis for rebate rejection? I just find it hard to have paid over $42k for a massive system and I have to now wait weeks losing $7 a day income from that system. I cannot even start paying it off until the utility gets around to the red-tape on interconnection, etc. Anyone have thoughts? Please respond even if only to castrate me! well, heres some things to consider... assuming your C1SR is programmed for unidirectional, then you are not in a good spot. most C1SRs i have seen are programmed in this basic configuration, what that means simply is, the meter doesnt know what direction the power flowing thru it is going, it assumes all power flow is being consumed by the property. so, on a sunny day, say you are selling back 5Kwh an hour, that meter is actually showing you are USING 5 Kwh and hour and billing you as such. suddely, your PV system is COSTING YOU MONEY. at night, watch what direction your disk analog dots are flowing, during the day, when you know you are using less that you are generating, look at the indicators again, if they are still moving in the same direction as the night, you are being billed for the power you sell. i would suggest you keep the PV system switched off, until the power company changes the meter. also, when they come to change the meter, they will reseal the box and the bypass issue you mention may not be an issue anymore as you wont have access to it for them to accuse you. im sure you aren't stealing power with the bypass anyway. i personally wouldnt want a meter box with a bypass so they couldn't even accuse me of such a thing. and yes, C1SR can be programmed for meter removal and invert as tamper. it can count how many times power has been removed from the meter, BUT, that counter will increment each time there is a power outage also. im not sure if they read the tamper flags each month, or on a per needed basis. i personally can identify with not wanting to loose out on the 7$ a day savings, thats just throwing money away. have you installed a watthour meter on the output of the PV so you know how much you generate? see my system, and the meter i use www.watthourmeters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=johnscollection&action=display&thread=15 |
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Post by Meter Repair on Nov 6, 2011 15:17:58 GMT -5
can you take pics of your system and post them here?
i can create a Sub board for your pictures, just let me know if you want me to and i will
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